Talk:Invisible Church

To understand the difference

between the local church and the universal church,

one must get a basic definition of each.

The "local" church is a group of baptized believers in Jesus Christ

who meet in some particular location on a regular basis.

The universal church is called the “invisible church”

Like an imaginary friend, an imaginary church.

The universal church is the name given to an invisible assembly.

The Church is never described in Scripture as “invisible,”

and, as a city set on a hill, it is surely meant to be visible

Matthew 5.14

The term church is a translation of a Greek word

having to do with a meeting together or an “assembly” 1 Thessalonians 2.14

2 Thessalonians 1.1

This word pertains to the work of God

in saving and sanctifying believers as “called-out ones.”

Another Greek word that speaks of ownership

and literally means “belonging to the Lord” is transliterated as church,

but it is only used twice in the New Testament

and never in direct reference to the church 1 Corinthians 11.20 Revelation 1.10

The Greek word ekklesia is used in reference to the local assembly

1 Thessalonians 1.1 1 Corinthians 4.17 2 Corinthians 11.8

There is not just one specific local church in any one area, necessarily.

There are many local churches in larger cities.

The church is the church even when it is not holding an official meeting.

In Acts 8.3, { one can see that the church is still the church

even when its members are at home. }

In Acts 9.31 the plural word churches

1 Corinthians 12.28

1 Corinthians 15.9

Matthew 16.18

Ephesians 1.22-23

Colossians 1.18

Acts 8

3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church,

entering into every house,

and haling men and women committed them to prison.

Colossians 4.15

Romans 16

Paul wrote the epistle of Philemon to Philemon and the church in his house.

Without a doubt early churches met in homes.

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got wrong

"How do we know which church is correct? "

{ "it does not matter" }

One church is as good as another

{"...to trace a church’s roots back to the "first church" is nowhere in Scripture given as a test for being the true church."}

The gates of hell shall not prevail <ref>

Acts 20.17-38

John 10.35

Galatians 1.8-9

2 Peter 1.16-21

2 Peter 3.2

Isaiah 8.20

2 Timothy 3.15-17

Matthew 5.18

John 10.35

Isaiah 40.8

1 Peter 2.25

Mark 7.1-13

1 Corinthians 16.19

Acts 15.17

refers to local bodies of believers meeting in a particular location.

In this sense, there are many churches.

see Galatians 1.6–9

1 Corinthians 1.10–13

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Catholic Augustine referred to the church as a mixed body,

this people has both tares and wheat, as described by Jesus.

there will always people in the church

with bad motives or are there for the wrong reason.

Some persons are in church for show,

others for business reasons

or to be seen by men as pious,

others perhaps for a social club

or to show of their ability to wax eloquent when discussing theology.

The church, which is also catholic or universal under the gospel

(not confined to one nation, as before under the law),

consists of all those throughout the world that are baptized believers

God does not have two separate churches.

Indeed, Jehovah has founded one church,

that Jesus has only one bride, people, church, or body.

Our Lord does not have two churches but only one.

The terms "invisible" and "visible" are conflicting terms.

The Church is either visible or it is invisible.

All genuine believers are saved and will go to heaven,

but are not members of the Church until they are scripturally baptized.

Some persons who make a profession of faith and are baptized are hypocrites,

if they do not truly believe in Christ

(thus are never truly united to Him by faith)

and are not part of the Church even with their names on the roll.

2 Timothy 2

19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal,

The Lord knoweth them that are his.

And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Ephesians 1

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world,

that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Romans 11

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Because men do not have the ability to see into the minds of men

and read the human heart,

anyone who professes Jesus Christ in credible manner

is allowed to join the church.

In the church there are genuine believers

who are truly united to Christ

and false professors or hypocrites

who only taste of heavenly gifts but do not really partake of the Savior.

Their relationship to Him is only outward.

"On this account the church is compared to a floor,

in which there is not only wheat but also chaff Matthew 3.12

to a field, where tares as well as good seed are sown Matthew 8.24- 25)

to a net, which gathers bad fish together with the good (ver. 47);

to a great house, in which are vessels of every kind

some to honour and some to dishonor,

People who are members of the church yet who never truly believe in Christ

receive the outward privileges of membership (fellowship,

but are never regenerated, saved, forgiven, united to Christ

and spiritually sanctified.

The blood of Jesus never washes away their sins.

The church is set apart from the world by profession

as well as its external government, discipline, and ordinances

The members of the church have obeyed the outward call of the gospel,

professing Christ, submitting to baptism

and placing themselves under the preaching and authority of the church.

All such persons who obey the outward call of the gospel

place themselves in covenant with God.

They have separated themselves from the world

and at least outwardly enjoy the privileges of being members of the church

While in a certain sense

those who outwardly profess the truth

participate in an external covenant with real responsibilities and privileges,

it does not mean and theologically cannot mean

that they truly participate in the saving merits of Christ.

Such persons (for a time) are in the covenant

but are never genuinely of the covenant.

They participate in the covenant externally as professors of the true religion,

but they never participate in the covenant of grace

which flows from the eternal covenant of redemption...

It needs to be recognized that although God deals with the church as one church,

as one people of God,

the external administration of the church with the preaching of the word,

the ordinances and discipline in the present and in the long run

in the eternal state) only truly benefit the church or the elect.

While outward professors receive temporary benefits

resulting from intellectual insights from the word,

pressure to conform to God's law,

the outward influence from a society of family-oriented, ethical people, etc.,

they receive greater damnation on the day of judgment

for spurning the great light to which they were exposed

under continual gospel preaching.

let us examine a few passages of Scripture that strongly support

the traditional view of the church as visible:

a) 1 John 2:19-20:

"They went out from us, but they were not of us;

for if they had been of us,

they would have continued with us;

but they went out that they might be made manifest,

that none of them were of us.

But you have an anointing from the Holy One,

and you know all things."

In this passage John discusses certain persons

who at one time had professed apostolic doctrine

and were members of the church.

Note the Spirit-inspired analysis of the apostle John

regarding this all too common situation.

John says, "they were not of us."

That is, they were never genuine members of the church.

While it is true that they were baptized and professed the true religion,

they were never united to Christ or saved.

They were chaff on the same floor as wheat Matthew 3.12]],

or tares among the wheat Matthew 13.24-25.

In this context John uses the term "us" (emon)

in the sense of true Christians.

The apostle makes two observations ...

First, he says that true Christians or members of the church cannot apostatize:

"for if they were of us [i.e., true believers],

they would have continued with us."

The fact that these professing Christians departed from the church

is empirical proof that they were never true Christians.

"They went out that they might be made manifest,

that none of them were of us."

"The meaning here is that secession proves a want of fundamental union

from the rest."

Second, John says that true believers 

have received the Holy Spirit from Christ

which secures them against apostasy or desertion:

"But you have an anointing from the Holy One,

and you know all things."

True believers or members of the church cannot fall away

because they are baptized with the Holy Spirit

and thus permanently abide in Christ (see 1 John 2.27 1 John 5.4

Our Lord concurs: "My sheep hear My voice,

and I know them, and they follow Me.

And I give them eternal life,

and they shall never perish;

neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand" John 10.27-28

1 John 2.19-20 teaches:

(1) the church is composed of true and false believers; and

(2) the doctrine of perseverance.

True Christians are united to Christ by the Holy Spirit

and can never apostatize

b) Matthew 7.21-23:

{"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,'

{shall enter the kingdom of heaven,

{but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

{Many will say to Me in that day,

{'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name,

{cast out demons in Your name,

{and done many wonders in Your name?'

{And then I will declare to them, '

{I never knew you; depart from Me, xxxxx

After warning His disciples of the danger of false prophets,

Our Lord warns them of the consequences of a false profession of religion.

He describes people who profess Christ;

who acknowledge His Lordship;

who are even engaged in some type of Christian service;

yet who never had a saving relationship to Jesus.

These people were obviously members of the church.

But, they were never truly united to the Lord or saved.

Romans 9:6:

In order to properly understand Romans 9:6 we briefly need to consider the context.

In Romans chapter 8 Paul elaborates on the major theme

that all those who are in Christ shall never be condemned.

Believers are delivered from the law by Jesus' death.

They are freed from the pollution of sin by the indwelling power of the Spirit.

The Spirit's power also guarantees a believer's resurrection and glorification.

Christians have their assurance rooted in their union with Christ.

There also is the comfort of the intercession of the Holy Spirit.

Toward the end of the chapter the safety and assurance of believers

is founded upon God's love from eternity.

Here the apostle discusses the unbreakable chain of the order of salvation

(ordo salutis) and the fact that "if God is for us, who can be against us?"

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